What is the unit of the heatflow? @ Source term, heat_transport, temperature, constant_neumann.

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1

Good evening ladies and gentlemen,

I’m working now extensively for some month with OGS to compare it with other numerical heat transport codes.

It’s cool.

However my temperatures are really low in my domain over all the time, I’m modelling density driven heatflow in porous media. In the other model I get higher temperatures in like 10%-20% range.

My suspicion is that the source term heatflow is differently handled.

my .st file

#SOURCE_TERM
$PCS_TYPE
HEAT_TRANSPORT
$PRIMARY_VARIABLE
TEMPERATURE1
$GEO_TYPE
POLYLINE Bottom_BC
$DIS_TYPE
CONSTANT_NEUMANN 0.1

``

Can someone tell me what unit the CONSTANT_NEUMANN condition for heat_transport in OGS has? And do I have to take the mesh(spatial discretization for FEM) into account?

Best regards,

MB

2

Dear Marius,

I am not sure if I remember it right, but I think the unit for CONSTANT_NEUMANN in terms of heat transport should be W/m in case of a Polyline (W/m2 in case of having a SURFACE). This means for you, that you are introducing 0.1 W/m of your Polyline and therefore the length of your Polyline is also important. OGS will then calculate a value for each node on your polyline itself. You can check your defined boundary conditions by setting the keyword $BOUNDARY_CONDITION_OUTPUT to your .pcs-file as shown in the example below:

#PROCESS

 $PCS_TYPE

  HEAT_TRANSPORT

 $NUM_TYPE

  NEW

 $BOUNDARY_CONDITION_OUTPUT

and run the simulation for the first time steps again.

Best regards

Steffi
···

Am 05.01.2016 um 21:28 schrieb Marius:

Good evening ladies and gentlemen,

      I'm working now extensively for some month with OGS to compare it with other numerical heat transport codes.

It’s cool.

      However my temperatures are really low in my domain over all the time, I'm modelling density driven heatflow in porous media. In the other model I get higher temperatures in like 10%-20% range.

      My suspicion is that the source term heatflow is differently handled.

my .st file

#SOURCE_TERM

             $PCS_TYPE

              HEAT_TRANSPORT

             $PRIMARY_VARIABLE

              TEMPERATURE1

             $GEO_TYPE

              POLYLINE Bottom_BC

             $DIS_TYPE

              CONSTANT_NEUMANN 0.1

``

      Can someone tell me what unit the CONSTANT_NEUMANN condition for heat_transport in OGS has? And do I have to take the mesh(spatial discretization for FEM) into account?

Best regards,

MB

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Steffi Popp

  Institute of Geosciences

  Geohydromodelling

  Christian-Albrechts-University Kiel

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  24118 Kiel

  Germany

  Phone: +49 (0)431-880 1347

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[email protected]
http://www.geohydromodellierung.ifg.uni-kiel.de/en/team/m.sc.-steffi-popp

3

For the value of CONSTANT_NEUMANN for transport problems, its unit is

W/m^2 and it is value of heat flux density. In addition, you have to take care about temperature unit, which is a little bit mess in current OGS5 (it will be cleaned in future). If you use Kelvin as temperature unit in the material parameters, you have to choose Kelvin as temperature. Otherwise, Celsius has to be adopted.

···

On 01/05/2016 09:28 PM, Marius wrote:
Good evening ladies and gentlemen,

I'm working now extensively for some month with OGS to compare it with other numerical heat transport codes.

It's cool.

However my temperatures are really low in my domain over all the time, I'm modelling density driven heatflow in porous media. In the other model I get higher temperatures in like 10%-20% range.

My suspicion is that the source term heatflow is differently handled.

my .st file
>
#SOURCE_TERM
$PCS_TYPE
  HEAT_TRANSPORT
$PRIMARY_VARIABLE
  TEMPERATURE1
$GEO_TYPE
  POLYLINE Bottom_BC
$DIS_TYPE
  CONSTANT_NEUMANN 0.1
>

Can someone tell me what unit the CONSTANT_NEUMANN condition for heat_transport in OGS has? And do I have to take the mesh(spatial discretization for FEM) into account?

Best regards,

MB

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4

"Celsius has to be adopted".--> "|||Celsius can be adopted|" |

>For the value of CONSTANT_NEUMANN for transport problems, its unit is W/m^2 and it is value of heat flux density. In addition, you have to take care about temperature unit, which is a little bit mess in current OGS5 (it will be cleaned in future). If you use Kelvin as temperature unit in the material parameters, you have to choose Kelvin as temperature. Otherwise, Celsius has to be adopted.

Good evening ladies and gentlemen,

I'm working now extensively for some month with OGS to compare it with other numerical heat transport codes.

It's cool.

However my temperatures are really low in my domain over all the time, I'm modelling density driven heatflow in porous media. In the other model I get higher temperatures in like 10%-20% range.

My suspicion is that the source term heatflow is differently handled.

my .st file
>
#SOURCE_TERM
$PCS_TYPE
  HEAT_TRANSPORT
$PRIMARY_VARIABLE
  TEMPERATURE1
$GEO_TYPE
  POLYLINE Bottom_BC
$DIS_TYPE
  CONSTANT_NEUMANN 0.1
>

Can someone tell me what unit the CONSTANT_NEUMANN condition for heat_transport in OGS has? And do I have to take the mesh(spatial discretization for FEM) into account?

Best regards,

MB

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···

On 01/06/2016 10:41 AM, Wenqing Wang wrote:

>On 01/05/2016 09:28 PM, Marius wrote:

5

@Mrs. Popp thank you!
I can see now that at my bottom_polyline I only introduce temepratures of 2.5°C per node. This may help me a little bit.

@Mr. Wang

But when I use thermal parameters like specific_heat, thermal_conductivity and thermal_expansion, isn’t it
the same for celsius and for kelvin?

What other parameters I have to look after?

Thank you for the replies.

Best regards,

MB

···

Am Dienstag, 5. Januar 2016 21:28:08 UTC+1 schrieb Marius:

Good evening ladies and gentlemen,

I’m working now extensively for some month with OGS to compare it with other numerical heat transport codes.

It’s cool.

However my temperatures are really low in my domain over all the time, I’m modelling density driven heatflow in porous media. In the other model I get higher temperatures in like 10%-20% range.

My suspicion is that the source term heatflow is differently handled.

my .st file

#SOURCE_TERM
$PCS_TYPE
HEAT_TRANSPORT
$PRIMARY_VARIABLE
TEMPERATURE1
$GEO_TYPE
POLYLINE Bottom_BC
$DIS_TYPE
CONSTANT_NEUMANN 0.1

``

Can someone tell me what unit the CONSTANT_NEUMANN condition for heat_transport in OGS has? And do I have to take the mesh(spatial discretization for FEM) into account?

Best regards,

MB

6

If you use constant specific_heat, thermal_conductivity and thermal_expansion, you can take either Kelvin or Celius.

···

On 01/06/2016 11:00 AM, Marius wrote:

@Mrs. Popp thank you!
I can see now that at my bottom_polyline I only introduce temepratures of 2.5°C per node. This may help me a little bit.

@Mr. Wang
But when I use thermal parameters like specific_heat, thermal_conductivity and thermal_expansion, isn't it
the same for celsius and for kelvin?

What other parameters I have to look after?

Thank you for the replies.

Best regards,

MB

Am Dienstag, 5. Januar 2016 21:28:08 UTC+1 schrieb Marius:

    Good evening ladies and gentlemen,

    I'm working now extensively for some month with OGS to compare it
    with other numerical heat transport codes.

    It's cool.

    However my temperatures are really low in my domain over all the
    time, I'm modelling density driven heatflow in porous media. In
    the other model I get higher temperatures in like 10%-20% range.

    My suspicion is that the source term heatflow is differently handled.

    my .st file
    >
    #SOURCE_TERM
     $PCS_TYPE
      HEAT_TRANSPORT
     $PRIMARY_VARIABLE
      TEMPERATURE1
     $GEO_TYPE
      POLYLINE Bottom_BC
     $DIS_TYPE
      CONSTANT_NEUMANN 0.1
    >

    Can someone tell me what unit the CONSTANT_NEUMANN condition for
    heat_transport in OGS has? And do I have to take the mesh(spatial
    discretization for FEM) into account?

    Best regards,

    MB

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7

Dear all,

when I activate the boundary condition output, I get the information that at my bottom line a temperature of 2.5°C is applied.

The top line is perfect, 18°C that is good. Also my initial condition for the whole domain with 18°C seems to be applied. But 2.5°C what is this? Is it more like a temperature that is introduced? Since it is a Heatflow …

#Dirchilet BC (from rectdq1_HEAT_TRANSPORT_BC_ST.asc.bc file)

#Total BC nodes 25

#Node index, name, x, y, z, value:

2 TEMPERATURE1 6.000000000000e+002 0.000000000000e+000 0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

3 TEMPERATURE1 0.000000000000e+000 0.000000000000e+000 0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

30 TEMPERATURE1 5.749999999999e+002 0.000000000000e+000 0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

31 TEMPERATURE1 5.500000000000e+002 0.000000000000e+000 0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

32 TEMPERATURE1 5.249999999999e+002 0.000000000000e+000 0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

33 TEMPERATURE1 4.999999999999e+002 0.000000000000e+000 0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

34 TEMPERATURE1 4.750000000000e+002 0.000000000000e+000 0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

35 TEMPERATURE1 4.499999999999e+002 0.000000000000e+000 0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

36 TEMPERATURE1 4.249999999999e+002 0.000000000000e+000 0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

37 TEMPERATURE1 3.999999999999e+002 0.000000000000e+000 0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

38 TEMPERATURE1 3.749999999998e+002 0.000000000000e+000 0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

39 TEMPERATURE1 3.499999999998e+002 0.000000000000e+000 0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

40 TEMPERATURE1 3.250000000000e+002 0.000000000000e+000 0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

41 TEMPERATURE1 3.000000000002e+002 0.000000000000e+000 0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

42 TEMPERATURE1 2.750000000002e+002 0.000000000000e+000 0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

43 TEMPERATURE1 2.500000000002e+002 0.000000000000e+000 0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

44 TEMPERATURE1 2.250000000002e+002 0.000000000000e+000 0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

45 TEMPERATURE1 2.000000000001e+002 0.000000000000e+000 0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

46 TEMPERATURE1 1.750000000001e+002 0.000000000000e+000 0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

47 TEMPERATURE1 1.500000000001e+002 0.000000000000e+000 0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

48 TEMPERATURE1 1.250000000001e+002 0.000000000000e+000 0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

49 TEMPERATURE1 1.000000000001e+002 0.000000000000e+000 0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

50 TEMPERATURE1 7.500000000005e+001 0.000000000000e+000 0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

51 TEMPERATURE1 5.000000000004e+001 0.000000000000e+000 0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

52 TEMPERATURE1 2.500000000002e+001 0.000000000000e+000 0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

#Source term or Neumann BC (from rectdq1_HEAT_TRANSPORT_BC_ST.asc.st file)

#Total ST nodes 25

#Node index, x, y, z, name value:

0 TEMPERATURE1 0.000000000000e+000 0.000000000000e+000 -1.000000000000e+002 1.249999999997e+000

4 TEMPERATURE1 2.499999999995e+001 0.000000000000e+000 -1.000000000000e+002 2.499999999995e+000

5 TEMPERATURE1 4.999999999990e+001 0.000000000000e+000 -1.000000000000e+002 2.499999999996e+000

6 TEMPERATURE1 7.499999999986e+001 0.000000000000e+000 -1.000000000000e+002 2.499999999995e+000

7 TEMPERATURE1 9.999999999980e+001 0.000000000000e+000 -1.000000000000e+002 2.499999999994e+000

8 TEMPERATURE1 1.249999999997e+002 0.000000000000e+000 -1.000000000000e+002 2.499999999995e+000

9 TEMPERATURE1 1.499999999997e+002 0.000000000000e+000 -1.000000000000e+002 2.499999999995e+000

10 TEMPERATURE1 1.749999999996e+002 0.000000000000e+000 -1.000000000000e+002 2.499999999995e+000

11 TEMPERATURE1 1.999999999996e+002 0.000000000000e+000 -1.000000000000e+002 2.499999999995e+000

12 TEMPERATURE1 2.249999999995e+002 0.000000000000e+000 -1.000000000000e+002 2.499999999995e+000

13 TEMPERATURE1 2.499999999995e+002 0.000000000000e+000 -1.000000000000e+002 2.499999999991e+000

14 TEMPERATURE1 2.749999999994e+002 0.000000000000e+000 -1.000000000000e+002 2.499999999985e+000

15 TEMPERATURE1 2.999999999992e+002 0.000000000000e+000 -1.000000000000e+002 2.499999999994e+000

16 TEMPERATURE1 3.249999999992e+002 0.000000000000e+000 -1.000000000000e+002 2.500000000006e+000

17 TEMPERATURE1 3.499999999993e+002 0.000000000000e+000 -1.000000000000e+002 2.500000000007e+000

18 TEMPERATURE1 3.749999999994e+002 0.000000000000e+000 -1.000000000000e+002 2.500000000007e+000

19 TEMPERATURE1 3.999999999995e+002 0.000000000000e+000 -1.000000000000e+002 2.500000000007e+000

20 TEMPERATURE1 4.249999999995e+002 0.000000000000e+000 -1.000000000000e+002 2.500000000007e+000

21 TEMPERATURE1 4.499999999996e+002 0.000000000000e+000 -1.000000000000e+002 2.500000000006e+000

22 TEMPERATURE1 4.749999999997e+002 0.000000000000e+000 -1.000000000000e+002 2.500000000007e+000

23 TEMPERATURE1 4.999999999997e+002 0.000000000000e+000 -1.000000000000e+002 2.500000000006e+000

24 TEMPERATURE1 5.249999999998e+002 0.000000000000e+000 -1.000000000000e+002 2.500000000007e+000

25 TEMPERATURE1 5.499999999999e+002 0.000000000000e+000 -1.000000000000e+002 2.500000000008e+000

26 TEMPERATURE1 5.749999999999e+002 0.000000000000e+000 -1.000000000000e+002 2.500000000007e+000

1 TEMPERATURE1 6.000000000000e+002 0.000000000000e+000 -1.000000000000e+002 1.250000000003e+000

#STOP

``

···

Am Dienstag, 5. Januar 2016 21:28:08 UTC+1 schrieb Marius Bittner:

Good evening ladies and gentlemen,

I’m working now extensively for some month with OGS to compare it with other numerical heat transport codes.

It’s cool.

However my temperatures are really low in my domain over all the time, I’m modelling density driven heatflow in porous media. In the other model I get higher temperatures in like 10%-20% range.

My suspicion is that the source term heatflow is differently handled.

my .st file

#SOURCE_TERM
$PCS_TYPE
HEAT_TRANSPORT
$PRIMARY_VARIABLE
TEMPERATURE1
$GEO_TYPE
POLYLINE Bottom_BC
$DIS_TYPE
CONSTANT_NEUMANN 0.1

``

Can someone tell me what unit the CONSTANT_NEUMANN condition for heat_transport in OGS has? And do I have to take the mesh(spatial discretization for FEM) into account?

Best regards,

MB

8

Hello Marius,

as far as I understand it the 2.5 is just the value applied to the individual node (as you can see the nodes with less contact area to the model have lower values of 1.25). As it is a source term for heat transport the unit is not °C or K but should be W (Joule/s).

Marius Bittner schrieb:

···

Dear all,

when I activate the boundary condition output, I get the information

that at my bottom line a temperature of 2.5°C is applied.

The top line is perfect, 18°C that is good. Also my initial condition

for the whole domain with 18°C seems to be applied. But 2.5°C what is

this? Is it more like a temperature that is introduced? Since it is a

Heatflow …

#Dirchilet BC (from rectdq1_HEAT_TRANSPORT_BC_ST.asc.bc file)

#Total BC nodes 25

#Node index, name, x, y, z, value:

2 TEMPERATURE1 6.000000000000e+002 0.000000000000e+000

0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

3 TEMPERATURE1 0.000000000000e+000 0.000000000000e+000

0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

30 TEMPERATURE1 5.749999999999e+002 0.000000000000e+000

0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

31 TEMPERATURE1 5.500000000000e+002 0.000000000000e+000

0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

32 TEMPERATURE1 5.249999999999e+002 0.000000000000e+000

0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

33 TEMPERATURE1 4.999999999999e+002 0.000000000000e+000

0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

34 TEMPERATURE1 4.750000000000e+002 0.000000000000e+000

0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

35 TEMPERATURE1 4.499999999999e+002 0.000000000000e+000

0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

36 TEMPERATURE1 4.249999999999e+002 0.000000000000e+000

0.000000 000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

37 TEMPERATURE1 3.999999999999e+002 0.000000000000e+000

0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

38 TEMPERATURE1 3.749999999998e+002 0.000000000000e+000

0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

39 TEMPERATURE1 3.499999999998e+002 0.000000000000e+000

0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

40 TEMPERATURE1 3.250000000000e+002 0.000000000000e+000

0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

41 TEMPERATURE1 3.000000000002e+002 0.000000000000e+000

0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

42 TEMPERATURE1 2.750000000002e+002 0.000000000000e+000

0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

43 TEMPERATURE1 2.500000000002e+002 0.000000000000e+000

0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

44 TEMPERATURE1 2.250000000002e+002 0.000000000000e+000

0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

45 TEMPERATURE1 2.000000000001e+002 0.000000000000e+000

0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

46 TEMPERATURE1 1.750000000001e+002 0.000000000000e+000

0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

47 TEMPERATURE1 1.500000000001e+002 0.000000000000e+000

0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

48 TEMPERATURE1 1.250000000001e+002 0.000000000000e+000

0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

49 TEMPERATURE1 1.000000000001e+002 0.000000000000e+000

0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

50 TEMPERATURE1 7.500000000005e+001 0.000000000000e+000

0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

51 TEMPERATURE1 5.000000000004e+001 0.000000000000e+000

0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

52 TEMPERATURE1 2.500000000002e+001 0.000000000000e+000

0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

#Source term or Neumann BC (from rectdq1_HEAT_TRANSPORT_BC_ST.asc.st

file)

#Total ST nodes 25

#Node index, x, y, z, name valu e:

0 TEMPERATURE1 0.000000000000e+000 0.000000000000e+000

-1.000000000000e+002 1.249999999997e+000

4 TEMPERATURE1 2.499999999995e+001 0.000000000000e+000

-1.000000000000e+002 2.499999999995e+000

5 TEMPERATURE1 4.999999999990e+001 0.000000000000e+000

-1.000000000000e+002 2.499999999996e+000

6 TEMPERATURE1 7.499999999986e+001 0.000000000000e+000

-1.000000000000e+002 2.499999999995e+000

7 TEMPERATURE1 9.999999999980e+001 0.000000000000e+000

-1.000000000000e+002 2.499999999994e+000

8 TEMPERATURE1 1.249999999997e+002 0.000000000000e+000

-1.000000000000e+002 2.499999999995e+000

9 TEMPERATURE1 1.499999999997e+002 0.000000000000e+000

-1.000000000000e+002 2.499999999995e+000

10 TEMPERATURE1 1.749999999996e+002 0.000000000000e+000

-1.000000000000e+002 2.499999999995e+000

11 TEMPERATURE1 1.999999999996e+002 0.000000000000e+000

-1.000000000000e+002 2.4999 99999995e+000

12 TEMPERATURE1 2.249999999995e+002 0.000000000000e+000

-1.000000000000e+002 2.499999999995e+000

13 TEMPERATURE1 2.499999999995e+002 0.000000000000e+000

-1.000000000000e+002 2.499999999991e+000

14 TEMPERATURE1 2.749999999994e+002 0.000000000000e+000

-1.000000000000e+002 2.499999999985e+000

15 TEMPERATURE1 2.999999999992e+002 0.000000000000e+000

-1.000000000000e+002 2.499999999994e+000

16 TEMPERATURE1 3.249999999992e+002 0.000000000000e+000

-1.000000000000e+002 2.500000000006e+000

17 TEMPERATURE1 3.499999999993e+002 0.000000000000e+000

-1.000000000000e+002 2.500000000007e+000

18 TEMPERATURE1 3.749999999994e+002 0.000000000000e+000

-1.000000000000e+002 2.500000000007e+000

19 TEMPERATURE1 3.999999999995e+002 0.000000000000e+000

-1.000000000000e+002 2.500000000007e+000

20 TEMPERATURE1 4.249999999995e+002 0.000000000000e+000

-1.000000 000000e+002 2.500000000007e+000

21 TEMPERATURE1 4.499999999996e+002 0.000000000000e+000

-1.000000000000e+002 2.500000000006e+000

22 TEMPERATURE1 4.749999999997e+002 0.000000000000e+000

-1.000000000000e+002 2.500000000007e+000

23 TEMPERATURE1 4.999999999997e+002 0.000000000000e+000

-1.000000000000e+002 2.500000000006e+000

24 TEMPERATURE1 5.249999999998e+002 0.000000000000e+000

-1.000000000000e+002 2.500000000007e+000

25 TEMPERATURE1 5.499999999999e+002 0.000000000000e+000

-1.000000000000e+002 2.500000000008e+000

26 TEMPERATURE1 5.749999999999e+002 0.000000000000e+000

-1.000000000000e+002 2.500000000007e+000

1 TEMPERATURE1 6.000000000000e+002 0.000000000000e+000

-1.000000000000e+002 1.250000000003e+000

#STOP

Am Dienstag, 5. Januar 2016 21:28:08 UTC+1 schrieb Marius Bittner:

Good evening ladies and gentlemen,

&n bsp; I’m working now extensively for some month with OGS to compare it

with other numerical heat transport codes.



It's cool.



However my temperatures are really low in my domain over all the

time, I'm modelling density driven heatflow in porous media. In

the other model I get higher temperatures in like 10%-20% range.



My suspicion is that the source term heatflow is differently handled.



my .st file

>>

#SOURCE_TERM

 $PCS_TYPE

  HEAT_TRANSPORT

 $PRIMARY_VARIABLE

  TEMPERATURE1

 $GEO_TYPE

  POLYLINE Bottom_BC

 $DIS_TYPE

&n bsp; CONSTANT_NEUMANN 0.1

Can someone tell me what unit the CONSTANT_NEUMANN condition for

heat_transport in OGS has? And do I have to take the mesh(spatial

discretization for FEM) into account?





Best regards,



MB

–

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9

Oh and boundary conditions are obviously in °C or K…

Wolf Tilmann Pfeiffer schrieb:

···

Hello Marius,

as far as I understand it the 2.5 is just the value applied to the

individual node (as you can see the nodes with less contact area to

the model have lower values of 1.25). As it is a source term for heat

transport the unit is not °C or K but should be W (Joule/s).

Marius Bittner schrieb:

Dear all,

when I activate the boundary condition output, I get the information

that at my bottom line a temperature of 2.5°C is applied.

The top line is perfect, 18°C that is good. Also my initial condition

for the whole domain with 18°C seems to be applied. But 2.5°C what is

this? Is it more like a temperature that is introduced? Since it is a

Heatflow …

#Dirchilet BC (from rectdq1_HEAT_TRANSPORT_BC_ST.asc.bc file)

#Total BC nodes 25

#Node index, name, x, y, z, value:

2 TEMPERATURE1 6.000000000000e+002 0.000000000000e+000

0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

3 TEMPERATURE1 0.000000000000e+000 0.000000000000e+000

0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

30 TEMPERATURE1 5.749999999999e+002 0.000000000000e+000

0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

31 TEMPERATURE1 5.500000000000e+002 0.000000000000e+000

0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

32 TEMPERATURE1 5.249999999999e+002 0.000000000000e+000

0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

33 TEMPERATURE1 4.999999999999e+002 0.000000000000e+000

0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

34 TEMPERATURE1 4.750000000000e+002 0.000000000000e+000

0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

35 TEMPERATURE1 4.499999999999e+002 0.000000000000e+000

0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

36 TEMPERAT URE1 4.249999999999e+002 0.000000000000e+000

0.000000 000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

37 TEMPERATURE1 3.999999999999e+002 0.000000000000e+000

0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

38 TEMPERATURE1 3.749999999998e+002 0.000000000000e+000

0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

39 TEMPERATURE1 3.499999999998e+002 0.000000000000e+000

0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

40 TEMPERATURE1 3.250000000000e+002 0.000000000000e+000

0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

41 TEMPERATURE1 3.000000000002e+002 0.000000000000e+000

0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

42 TEMPERATURE1 2.750000000002e+002 0.000000000000e+000

0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

43 TEMPERATURE1 2.500000000002e+002 0.000000000000e+000

0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

44 TEMPERATURE1 2.250000000002e+002 0.000000000000e+000

0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

45 TEMPERATURE1 2.000000000001e+002 0.000000000000e+000

0.00 0000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

46 TEMPERATURE1 1.750000000001e+002 0.000000000000e+000

0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

47 TEMPERATURE1 1.500000000001e+002 0.000000000000e+000

0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

48 TEMPERATURE1 1.250000000001e+002 0.000000000000e+000

0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

49 TEMPERATURE1 1.000000000001e+002 0.000000000000e+000

0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

50 TEMPERATURE1 7.500000000005e+001 0.000000000000e+000

0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

51 TEMPERATURE1 5.000000000004e+001 0.000000000000e+000

0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

52 TEMPERATURE1 2.500000000002e+001 0.000000000000e+000

0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

#Source term or Neumann BC (from rectdq1_HEAT_TRANSPORT_BC_ST.asc.st

file)

#Total ST nodes 25

#Node index, x, y, z, name valu e:

0 TEMPERATURE1 0.000000000000e+000 0.000000000000e+000

-1.000000000000e+0 02 1.249999999997e+000

4 TEMPERATURE1 2.499999999995e+001 0.000000000000e+000

-1.000000000000e+002 2.499999999995e+000

5 TEMPERATURE1 4.999999999990e+001 0.000000000000e+000

-1.000000000000e+002 2.499999999996e+000

6 TEMPERATURE1 7.499999999986e+001 0.000000000000e+000

-1.000000000000e+002 2.499999999995e+000

7 TEMPERATURE1 9.999999999980e+001 0.000000000000e+000

-1.000000000000e+002 2.499999999994e+000

8 TEMPERATURE1 1.249999999997e+002 0.000000000000e+000

-1.000000000000e+002 2.499999999995e+000

9 TEMPERATURE1 1.499999999997e+002 0.000000000000e+000

-1.000000000000e+002 2.499999999995e+000

10 TEMPERATURE1 1.749999999996e+002 0.000000000000e+000

-1.000000000000e+002 2.499999999995e+000

11 TEMPERATURE1 1.999999999996e+002 0.000000000000e+000

-1.000000000000e+002 2.4999 99999995e+000

12 TEMPERATURE1 2.249999999995e+002 0.000000000000e+000

-1.000000000000e+002 2.499999999995e+000

13 TEMPERATURE1 2.49999 9999995e+002 0.000000000000e+000

-1.000000000000e+002 2.499999999991e+000

14 TEMPERATURE1 2.749999999994e+002 0.000000000000e+000

-1.000000000000e+002 2.499999999985e+000

15 TEMPERATURE1 2.999999999992e+002 0.000000000000e+000

-1.000000000000e+002 2.499999999994e+000

16 TEMPERATURE1 3.249999999992e+002 0.000000000000e+000

-1.000000000000e+002 2.500000000006e+000

17 TEMPERATURE1 3.499999999993e+002 0.000000000000e+000

-1.000000000000e+002 2.500000000007e+000

18 TEMPERATURE1 3.749999999994e+002 0.000000000000e+000

-1.000000000000e+002 2.500000000007e+000

19 TEMPERATURE1 3.999999999995e+002 0.000000000000e+000

-1.000000000000e+002 2.500000000007e+000

20 TEMPERATURE1 4.249999999995e+002 0.000000000000e+000

-1.000000 000000e+002 2.500000000007e+000

21 TEMPERATURE1 4.499999999996e+002 0.000000000000e+000

-1.000000000000e+002 2.500000000006e+000

22 TEMPERATURE1 4.749999999997e+002 0.000000000000e+000

-1.0000 00000000e+002 2.500000000007e+000

23 TEMPERATURE1 4.999999999997e+002 0.000000000000e+000

-1.000000000000e+002 2.500000000006e+000

24 TEMPERATURE1 5.249999999998e+002 0.000000000000e+000

-1.000000000000e+002 2.500000000007e+000

25 TEMPERATURE1 5.499999999999e+002 0.000000000000e+000

-1.000000000000e+002 2.500000000008e+000

26 TEMPERATURE1 5.749999999999e+002 0.000000000000e+000

-1.000000000000e+002 2.500000000007e+000

1 TEMPERATURE1 6.000000000000e+002 0.000000000000e+000

-1.000000000000e+002 1.250000000003e+000

#STOP

Am Dienstag, 5. Januar 2016 21:28:08 UTC+1 schrieb Marius Bittner:

Good evening ladies and gentlemen,

&n bsp; I’m working now extensively for some month with OGS to compare it

with other numerical heat transport codes.

It’s cool.

However my temperatures are really low in my domain over all the

time, I’m modelling density driven heatflow in porous m edia. In

the other model I get higher temperatures in like 10%-20% range.

My suspicion is that the source term heatflow is differently handled.

my .st file

#SOURCE_TERM

$PCS_TYPE

HEAT_TRANSPORT

$PRIMARY_VARIABLE

TEMPERATURE1

$GEO_TYPE

POLYLINE Bottom_BC

$DIS_TYPE

&n bsp; CONSTANT_NEUMANN 0.1

Can someone tell me what unit the CONSTANT_NEUMANN condition for

heat_transport in OGS has? And do I have to take the mesh(spatial

discretization for FEM) into account?

Best regards,

MB

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10

Hi Marius,

as Tilmann already answered the value in the boundary output should be in W, as you used CONSTANT_NEUMANN (W/s) in the source term definition. As OGS calculates the value for each node with the given source term of 0.1 W/m, which you defined in the st. file, you get one value for each node on your polyline. The temperature you get in the model domain can than be seen in your outputfiles for paraview or tecplot for example.

The question is, which value do you want to define for your polyline? Which value did you define for the other numerical models you want to compare OGS with? You might have to be careful with the units defined in the other models for this line? Without any knowledge about the model setup it seems to be hard to help you with this problem.

Steffi
···

Am 06.01.2016 um 11:58 schrieb Wolf Tilmann Pfeiffer:

Oh and boundary conditions are obviously in °C or K…

  Wolf Tilmann Pfeiffer schrieb:

    Hello Marius,



    as far as I understand it the 2.5 is just the value applied to the

    individual node (as you can see the nodes with less contact area to

    the model have lower values of 1.25). As it is a source term for heat

    transport the unit is not °C or K but should be W (Joule/s).





    Marius Bittner schrieb:

      Dear all,



      when I activate the boundary condition output, I get the information

      that at my bottom line a temperature of 2.5°C is applied.

      The top line is perfect, 18°C that is good. Also my initial condition

      for the whole domain with 18°C seems to be applied. But 2.5°C what is

      this? Is it more like a temperature that is introduced? Since it is a

      Heatflow ...



      ||

      #Dirchilet BC (from rectdq1_HEAT_TRANSPORT_BC_ST.asc.bc file)

      #Total BC nodes 25

      #Node index, name, x, y, z, value:

      2 TEMPERATURE1 6.000000000000e+002 0.000000000000e+000

      0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

      3 TEMPERATURE1 0.000000000000e+000 0.000000000000e+000

      0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

      30 TEMPERATURE1 5.749999999999e+002 0.000000000000e+000

      0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

      31 TEMPERATURE1 5.500000000000e+002 0.000000000000e+000

      0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

      32 TEMPERATURE1 5.249999999999e+002 0.000000000000e+000

      0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

      33 TEMPERATURE1 4.999999999999e+002 0.000000000000e+000

      0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

      34 TEMPERATURE1 4.750000000000e+002 0.000000000000e+000

      0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

      35 TEMPERATURE1 4.499999999999e+002 0.000000000000e+000

      0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

      36 TEMPERAT URE1 4.249999999999e+002 0.000000000000e+000

      0.000000 000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

      37 TEMPERATURE1 3.999999999999e+002 0.000000000000e+000

      0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

      38 TEMPERATURE1 3.749999999998e+002 0.000000000000e+000

      0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

      39 TEMPERATURE1 3.499999999998e+002 0.000000000000e+000

      0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

      40 TEMPERATURE1 3.250000000000e+002 0.000000000000e+000

      0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

      41 TEMPERATURE1 3.000000000002e+002 0.000000000000e+000

      0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

      42 TEMPERATURE1 2.750000000002e+002 0.000000000000e+000

      0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

      43 TEMPERATURE1 2.500000000002e+002 0.000000000000e+000

      0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

      44 TEMPERATURE1 2.250000000002e+002 0.000000000000e+000

      0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

      45 TEMPERATURE1 2.000000000001e+002 0.000000000000e+000

      0.00 0000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

      46 TEMPERATURE1 1.750000000001e+002 0.000000000000e+000

      0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

      47 TEMPERATURE1 1.500000000001e+002 0.000000000000e+000

      0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

      48 TEMPERATURE1 1.250000000001e+002 0.000000000000e+000

      0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

      49 TEMPERATURE1 1.000000000001e+002 0.000000000000e+000

      0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

      50 TEMPERATURE1 7.500000000005e+001 0.000000000000e+000

      0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

      51 TEMPERATURE1 5.000000000004e+001 0.000000000000e+000

      0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

      52 TEMPERATURE1 2.500000000002e+001 0.000000000000e+000

      0.000000000000e+000 1.800000000000e+001

      #Source term or Neumann BC (from rectdq1_HEAT_TRANSPORT_BC_ST.asc.st

      file)

      #Total ST nodes 25

      #Node index, x, y, z, name valu e:

      0 TEMPERATURE1 0.000000000000e+000 0.000000000000e+000

      -1.000000000000e+0 02 1.249999999997e+000

      4 TEMPERATURE1 2.499999999995e+001 0.000000000000e+000

      -1.000000000000e+002 2.499999999995e+000

      5 TEMPERATURE1 4.999999999990e+001 0.000000000000e+000

      -1.000000000000e+002 2.499999999996e+000

      6 TEMPERATURE1 7.499999999986e+001 0.000000000000e+000

      -1.000000000000e+002 2.499999999995e+000

      7 TEMPERATURE1 9.999999999980e+001 0.000000000000e+000

      -1.000000000000e+002 2.499999999994e+000

      8 TEMPERATURE1 1.249999999997e+002 0.000000000000e+000

      -1.000000000000e+002 2.499999999995e+000

      9 TEMPERATURE1 1.499999999997e+002 0.000000000000e+000

      -1.000000000000e+002 2.499999999995e+000

      10 TEMPERATURE1 1.749999999996e+002 0.000000000000e+000

      -1.000000000000e+002 2.499999999995e+000

      11 TEMPERATURE1 1.999999999996e+002 0.000000000000e+000

      -1.000000000000e+002 2.4999 99999995e+000

      12 TEMPERATURE1 2.249999999995e+002 0.000000000000e+000

      -1.000000000000e+002 2.499999999995e+000

      13 TEMPERATURE1 2.49999 9999995e+002 0.000000000000e+000

      -1.000000000000e+002 2.499999999991e+000

      14 TEMPERATURE1 2.749999999994e+002 0.000000000000e+000

      -1.000000000000e+002 2.499999999985e+000

      15 TEMPERATURE1 2.999999999992e+002 0.000000000000e+000

      -1.000000000000e+002 2.499999999994e+000

      16 TEMPERATURE1 3.249999999992e+002 0.000000000000e+000

      -1.000000000000e+002 2.500000000006e+000

      17 TEMPERATURE1 3.499999999993e+002 0.000000000000e+000

      -1.000000000000e+002 2.500000000007e+000

      18 TEMPERATURE1 3.749999999994e+002 0.000000000000e+000

      -1.000000000000e+002 2.500000000007e+000

      19 TEMPERATURE1 3.999999999995e+002 0.000000000000e+000

      -1.000000000000e+002 2.500000000007e+000

      20 TEMPERATURE1 4.249999999995e+002 0.000000000000e+000

      -1.000000 000000e+002 2.500000000007e+000

      21 TEMPERATURE1 4.499999999996e+002 0.000000000000e+000

      -1.000000000000e+002 2.500000000006e+000

      22 TEMPERATURE1 4.749999999997e+002 0.000000000000e+000

      -1.0000 00000000e+002 2.500000000007e+000

      23 TEMPERATURE1 4.999999999997e+002 0.000000000000e+000

      -1.000000000000e+002 2.500000000006e+000

      24 TEMPERATURE1 5.249999999998e+002 0.000000000000e+000

      -1.000000000000e+002 2.500000000007e+000

      25 TEMPERATURE1 5.499999999999e+002 0.000000000000e+000

      -1.000000000000e+002 2.500000000008e+000

      26 TEMPERATURE1 5.749999999999e+002 0.000000000000e+000

      -1.000000000000e+002 2.500000000007e+000

      1 TEMPERATURE1 6.000000000000e+002 0.000000000000e+000

      -1.000000000000e+002 1.250000000003e+000

      #STOP









      Am Dienstag, 5. Januar 2016 21:28:08 UTC+1 schrieb Marius Bittner:



      Good evening ladies and gentlemen,



      &n bsp; I'm working now extensively for some month with OGS to compare it

      with other numerical heat transport codes.



      It's cool.



      However my temperatures are really low in my domain over all the

      time, I'm modelling density driven heatflow in porous m edia. In

      the other model I get higher temperatures in like 10%-20% range.



      My suspicion is that the source term heatflow is differently handled.



      my .st file

      ||

      #SOURCE_TERM

      $PCS_TYPE

      HEAT_TRANSPORT

      $PRIMARY_VARIABLE

      TEMPERATURE1

      $GEO_TYPE

      POLYLINE Bottom_BC

      $DIS_TYPE

      &n bsp; CONSTANT_NEUMANN 0.1



      Can someone tell me what unit the CONSTANT_NEUMANN condition for

      heat_transport in OGS has? And do I have to take the mesh(spatial

      discretization for FEM) into account?





      Best regards,



      MB







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Steffi Popp

  Institute of Geosciences

  Geohydromodelling

  Christian-Albrechts-University Kiel

  Ludewig-Meyn-Str. 10

  24118 Kiel

  Germany

  Phone: +49 (0)431-880 1347

  Mobile: +49 (0)176-67373655

  E-Mail: Web:

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11

In the other model I set up a constant Heatflow with 0.1 J/ms.
The only obvious difference I can see is the mesh. But I did a mesh convergency and for all my OGS meshes the temperature is pretty low. I have no experience as well. I can’t tell if 0.1 J/ms at a bottom line in a 600x100 soil domain of 18°C has an impact at all.for now the max temperature I get is 19°C.

The other model gives me values around 25°C as max temperature.

Thank you for all your replies. I’ll mention the nice community in my report.

Best regards,

MB

···

Am Dienstag, 5. Januar 2016 21:28:08 UTC+1 schrieb Marius Bittner:

Good evening ladies and gentlemen,

I’m working now extensively for some month with OGS to compare it with other numerical heat transport codes.

It’s cool.

However my temperatures are really low in my domain over all the time, I’m modelling density driven heatflow in porous media. In the other model I get higher temperatures in like 10%-20% range.

My suspicion is that the source term heatflow is differently handled.

my .st file

#SOURCE_TERM
$PCS_TYPE
HEAT_TRANSPORT
$PRIMARY_VARIABLE
TEMPERATURE1
$GEO_TYPE
POLYLINE Bottom_BC
$DIS_TYPE
CONSTANT_NEUMANN 0.1

``

Can someone tell me what unit the CONSTANT_NEUMANN condition for heat_transport in OGS has? And do I have to take the mesh(spatial discretization for FEM) into account?

Best regards,

MB

12

There is now a webpage on some basic conventions like units of BCs and STs: OGS Conventions

1 Like